Talk:Major League Baseball

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Good articleMajor League Baseball has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 4, 2008Good article nomineeListed
October 6, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
August 15, 2010Good article reassessmentDelisted
December 10, 2013Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article


"commissioner of baseball"[edit]

Wikipedia style indicates that "commissioner of baseball" should be lowercase because it is preceded by the adjective "the". If Wikipedia doesn't capitalize "the president of the United States", why should we capitalize "the commissioner of baseball"? See MOS:JOBTITLES, example "Richard Nixon was the president of the United States." —Eyer (If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message to let me know.) 16:32, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

See also the capitalized example at WP:JOBTITLES directly next to the one you mention. It is the name of the office. Rob Manfried may be the latest in a linenof commisioners of baseball, but as the office he holds is "Commisioner of Baseball". It is a proper noun. Without it, there's a lack of grammatical distinction to mark the office as a formal title. In short, lowercasing it causes the sentence to lose meaning, and is unacceptable. If you wowh to argue that it should not be capitalized, get the article on the office moved first. Until then, having the link keep the proper capitalization from the article title is valid. oknazevad (talk) 16:45, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
The "the" means it is a common noun and should be lowercase. —Eyer (If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message to let me know.) 16:48, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
Nope. The presence or absence of a definite article in front of a name does not render it a common noun by any intelligent and competent reading of the English language. In fact, if anything, the use of a definite article instead of an indefinite article strengthens the proper-noun nature of the name. That really is grade school grammar. Claims otherwise are embarrassing to Wikipedia, frankly. oknazevad (talk) 17:01, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
Again, if we don't capitalize "the president of the United States" specifically because it is modified by a definite article, we shouldn't capitalize "the commissioner of baseball" when if is modified by a definite article. I think your concern is with MOS:JOBTITLES. This is generally a settled discussion over in the MOS pages, but if you want to see the MOS changed, you might want to start a conversation there. —Eyer (If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message to let me know.) 17:05, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
For the use in the lead the sentence is saying that Major League Baseball is led by the [title of executive office] and is not referring to a person serving in the role of commissioner. Thus I believe it is appropriate to capitalize the title of the executive office. As an example of someone being referred to in their role as commissioner, I think the use in the section "Expanding west, south and north", would be more appropriate as Ford Frick, the commissioner of organized baseball. However it would be probably be better to recast it as Commissioner Ford Frick, which would parallel other uses in the article where "commissioner" is used as a title, mainly because of the ambiguity between "Baseball" as an umbrella term for organized baseball, and "baseball" as a general name for the sport. isaacl (talk) 04:09, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Agree with caps. The linked article uses it that way. The policy at MOS:JOBTITLES is not specific enough and a source of constant confusion and disagreement. Jmar67 (talk) 05:49, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
What context is OP asking about? It depends. Generally, I think I agree that when "the" is in front of it, it's not being used as job title. One could say "Commission of Baseball Joe Blow" or "Joe Blow is Commissioner of Baseball", but not "Joe Blow is the commissioner of baseball". If one wants to cap it they should follow the advice of using as a title, not a generic. Dicklyon (talk) 23:09, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
JOBTITLES claiming the use of the definite article automatically makes it a generic use is unsound and ungrammatical. It cannot be categorically stated as such and should not be used as a guideline. oknazevad (talk) 13:01, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
Yet that is the guideline, and it has been accepted and applied widely. Dicklyon (talk) 03:22, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Last relevant discussion. The subject of the sentence is the position, not a person. oknazevad (talk) 03:52, 20 October 2019 (UTC)