Talk:Han Chinese

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DNA section biased[edit]

The text in the DNA analyis is misleading

"Despite this, tests comparing the genetic profiles of northern Han, southern Han and southern natives determined that haplogroups O1b-M110, O2a1-M88 and O3d-M7, which are prevalent in southern natives, were only observed in some southern Hans (4% on average), but not in northern Hans. "

This would imply the paternal contribution of southern natives is only 4% when this is far from the truth. Y-DNA O1 (all subclades) is very common in (and perhaps more associated with) Dai populations. It is also very common in southern Chinese. Y-DNA O-P201 is very common in southern natives and is very common in Guangdong. There are many subclades of Y-DNA O1, O2 and O3 shared by both Dai and Han alike. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_by_populations_of_East_and_Southeast_Asia. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  2. ^ http://blog.ifeng.com/article/31381043.html. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  3. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_O-MSY2.2#O-M119. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  4. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_O-M95_(Y-DNA)#Subclade_distribution. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  5. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_O-M122#Subclade_Distribution. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Summary[edit]

The number of speakers derived from statistics or estimates (2019) and were rounded:[1][2][3]

Number People Subgroups Main Area Population
1 Cantonese people Taishanese people, Hongkongers, Macau people, Macanese people Guangdong, Guangxi, Hainan, Hong Kong, Macau 120,000,000
2 Hakka people Ngái people Guangdong, Fujian, Jiangxi, Guangxi, Sichuan, Hunan 120,000,000
3 Min people Fuzhou people, Hoklo people, Hoklo Taiwanese, Putian people, Teochew people Fujian, Hainan, Southern Zhejiang, Guangdong 115,000,000
4 Shandong people Shandong Province 100,000,000
5 Sichuanese people Sichuan Province, Chongqing Municipality 100,000,000
6 Wu people Shanghainese people, Ningbonese people, Wenzhou people Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Shanghai, Anhui, Jiangxi, Fujian 90,000,000
7 Hebei people Hebei Province 75,000,000
8 Jianghuai people Subei people Jiangsu Province, Anhui Province 75,000,000
9 Gan people Jiangxi, Eastern Hunan 60,000,000
10 Hunanese people Hunan, Northeastern Guangxi 40,000,000
11 Taiwanese people Taiwan, Southeast Asia 25,000,000
12 Tanka people Fuzhou Tanka Guangdong, Guangxi, Fujian, Hainan 5,000,000
13 Hainan people Hainan, Southeast Asia 5,000,000
14 Chuanqing people Guizhou 700,000
15 Gaoshan people Yunnan, Guizhou 400,000
16 Waxiang people Hunan 400,000
17 Tunbao people Guizhou, Anshun 300,000
18 Hui'an people Quanzhou, Fujian, China 50,000

Edit protected[edit]

To add {{Failed verification}} after the refs for Hong Kong. The referenced materials only referred to Chinese, without specifically referring to any ethnic groups. 219.76.24.207 (talk) 10:04, 12 January 2021 (UTC) IP hopping sock. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/14.0.180.170/Archive.

Would {{better source needed}} be an alternative choice? 219.76.24.202 (talk) 12:46, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
Found a better source but still does not specify Han Chinese. I've put {{better source needed}}.  Ganbaruby! (Say hi!) 03:39, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
It's very unlikely that there would be any. This isn't asked in the censuses taken in Hong Kong, Macau, or Singapore (or Christmas Island). The same is true for all overseas Chinese communities. 219.76.24.202 (talk) 10:46, 20 January 2021 (UTC) IP hopping sock. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/14.0.180.170/Archive.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew hk (talkcontribs) 16:10, 24 January 2021 (UTC) 219.76.24.198 (talk) 12:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
@Ganbaruby: Thanks. Would it be OR to simply assert so on Wikipedia? There's practically no source which would suggests so, given the very fact that no such data is collected in censuses and there is no survey on this. 219.76.24.198 (talk) 12:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Indonesian Chinese[edit]

The official figure for Indonesian Chinese is only 2.8 million. Why do people use unsubstantiated figures?

The unsubstantiated figures for other countries would be also higher and it will all be a mess.

This wikipedia Indonesian Chinese figure has been changed many times in the past. Please follow official figure from Indonesian government which is 2.8 million.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1i7FrGLh14

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyberxwiki (talkcontribs) 10:01, 7 June 2021 (UTC) 


Singaporean Chinese[edit]

A lot of the times, people are confused between the words citizens and residents. The residents in Singapore shouldn't be counted because they are citizens of other countries especially Malaysia and China. If they are counted , you are artificially double counting in their home country and Singapore.

Singapore Chinese citizens is around 75.9 or 76% of the total citizens as of 2020 census.

Cyberxwiki (talk) 16:42, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Is there any statistics on how many of them are Han (or belong to one of the sociolinguistic (sub)groups of Han)? 219.76.24.207 (talk) 12:26, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Any breakdown figures on how many would be non-Han within the "Others" grouping under the table titled "Population Profile of Singaporean Chinese Subgroups"? 219.76.24.213 (talk) 11:40, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Singaporeans are citizenships/ nationalities, but Han Chinese is a ethnic group which does not belong to certain nation. There are many Chinese immigrants in Singapore indeed, but the population of citizenship alone shows over 75% local people with Chinese decent, which is already excluded the immigrants. 123.192.182.76 (talk) 18:56, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Against the disruptive editing made above by 123.192.182.76 (LVTW) in the last month changing it like 20 times without consensus being formed. Before consensus is reached the table should be kept at the October 29 form before 123.192.182.76 (LVTW) made disruptive changes. Taekhosong (talk) 19:20, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Again, let me stress again the reason why singporean Chinese is not region with significant population is that it is NOT a region with Han Chinese significant in BOTH number and percentage. The only two regions meeting the above criteria are PRC and ROC. That’s why the page has been like this way long before you started this edit. Thanks. Taekhosong (talk) 19:32, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Then I would just bring my first response over here again... Han Chinese, as a ethnic group, the race, the ethnicity, not nationality as "Chinese people", which does not restrict to certain nationalities or defined by the politics, if you refer it to certain region or specific nationality then there is already an article called "Chinese People". The context also mentioned that Singapore has a majority (over 75 %) of ethnic Chinese group[1][2][3] along with the other two, also the main article of Singapore indicates the information clearly, and the title indicates the definition clearly as "Regions with significant population". Worth to note, I never regard Singapore as a "Chinese nation", but itself indeed is a nation with ethnic Chinese/ Han Chinese forming the majority of population, which is pure fact; This is your own problem keeping on confusion between the concept of ethnicity (Han Chinese) and nationality (Chinese people). I recommend you to do some reserch for the concepts between 中国人,华人, and 汉人. Similar to the case you gave by "Koreans", they also have a concept in distinguish by " Joseonjok" and "Hanminjok", or the concept between Yamato people (ethnicity) and Japanese people (nationality). Again, please build consensus in talk page before any further reversion, thank you.LVTW2 (talk) 20:48, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

You keep bringing up I go by “regions”, and I this is how listing the distribution of a certain ethnic group works — for every ethnic group you list the population where you can find it in each country/region, which has nothing to do with nationality to begin with, it is you who confuse them and this is not a problem with me and the rest of the editors. Let me stress my point for the last time, region with significant population means two things: high in both quantity and percentage. In Singapore Han Chinese people have a majority but in quantity it falls behind many other countries, so it is not a region with significant number of Han Chinese. By your reasoning, any foreign Chinatown would have majority Han Chinese population, and should we count them too in the first panel? Not to mention not all Singaporean Chinese are Han. Taekhosong (talk) 21:25, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Your logic is funny and laughable. Are Chinatowns forming their own countries? The regions in this sense mean the individual political unit or at least a dependent territories such as Hong kong or Macau... when the heck is San Francisco Chinatown or London Chinatown being counted individually in any statics? Singapore is a sovereign city state, of course it is certain to be included as individual entry of its own. Otherwise the quantity of American Jews are more numbers than total population of Israel but how come it's not counted as "majority" or as "significant population" in the US? I doubt you really know what "majority" means? According to Collins English dictionary[4], the majority of people or things in a group is more than half of them, relative percentage among a region, not about what you said to be the total numbers or quantity. You should go back to school for redoing your math, or check a good English dictionary for the definition of "majority". LVTW2 (talk) 09:29, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

The word is “significant”, not majority. I get it, you just want to show Taiwan and Singapore are no different in Han Chinese population but they aren’t. Taiwan is part of the greater China homeland whereas Singapore is a foreign land where the Han immigrant happens to be majority Taekhosong (talk) 01:13, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Guys, this article needs a big shuffle. First of all, this article is about a particular ethnic group called Han Chinese (汉人), not about nationalities, so no politics should get involved. Secondly, this article should align with other similar articles that focus on a particular ethnic group, see Punjabis as an example. The so-called "Overseas Chinese" section should be removed and all countries and territories should be placed under "Regions with significant populations" with their figures ranked purely by number, not percentage of total population. Finally, I would like to point out the fact that even though a lot of those overseas Chinese residing outside Greater China are believed to be Han Chinese, their exact number is unknown. Therefore, other than mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan, figures for all other countries need a disclaimer attached informing the reader that these figures are approximates only. 14.203.165.238 (talk) 08:03, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
Therefore, other than mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan, figures for all other countries need a disclaimer attached informing the reader that these figures are approximates only. Hong Kong got no statistics on how many people are Hans, how many are Tibetans, how many are Manchus, etc. So the number of Hans among its population is unknown. The same is the case for Macau and Singapore. 210.3.171.98 (talk) 14:43, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
And Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Sub-Saharan Africa. 210.5.183.142 (talk) 18:34, 15 January 2022 (UTC)